Online flight Saturday Sep 15 1500Z

13 years 5 months ago #5296 by jetjerry

"Procedure turn means the maneuver prescribed when it is necessary to reverse direction to establish the aircraft on an intermediate or final approach course. The outbound course, direction of turn, distance within which the turn must be completed, and minimum altitude are specified in the procedure. However, the point at which the turn may be commenced, and the type and rate of turn, is left to the discretion of the pilot."

The above is taken from FAA text.

In lieu of special procedures that I know nothing about for MHTG one would need to fly the PT and the entire app. However, wx permitting, one can always ask for a visual app if the airport is in sight and more than 3 miles vis prevails.

An airport as difficult as this one would require special training from the operator, that has been approved by the controlling agency, so pilots knew if and what type of special procedures were available and expected of them.

I do not know if MHTG has a radar app control...or manual control. That would make a big diff on how you were handled.

Note however:> there are NO transition routes for any of the approaches. Only the approach course is shown.

I will try and research this a bit more. I don't know how Honduras handles air traffic, and some things may have changed since I quit flying. :roll:


Please Log in to join the conversation.

13 years 5 months ago #5298 by jetjerry
OK goes.

These discussions are great...I love them.

Be advised that when one gets into the guts of these technical aspects, even experienced pilots have questions.

Maximum Acceptable Descent Rates: Operational
experience and research have shown that a descent
rate of greater than approximately 1,000 FPM is unacceptable
during the final stages of an approach (below
1,000 feet AGL). This is due to a human perceptual
limitation that is independent of the type of airplane
or helicopter. Therefore, the operational practices and
techniques must ensure that descent rates greater than
1,000 FPM are not permitted in either the instrument
or visual portions of an approach and landing operation.
For short runways, arriving at the MDA at the MAP
when the MAP is located at the threshold may require a
missed approach for some airplanes. For nonprecision
approaches a descent rate should be used that will
ensure that the airplane reaches the MDA at a distance
from the threshold that will allow landing in the touchdown
zone. On many IAPs this distance will be annotated
by a VDP. To determine the required rate of
descent, subtract the TDZE from the FAF altitude and
divide this by the time inbound. For example if the
FAF altitude is 2,000 feet MSL, the TDZE is 400 feet
MSL and the time inbound is two minutes, an 800
FPM rate of descent should be used.
To verify the airplane is on an approximate 3° glidepath,
use a calculation of “300-foot-to 1 NM.” The
glidepath height above TDZE is calculated by multiplying
the NM distance from the threshold by 300.
For example, at 10 NM the aircraft should be 3,000
feet above the TDZE, at 5 NM 1,500 feet, at 2 NM
600 feet, at 1.5 NM 450 feet, etc., until a safe landing
can be made.

Some approach procedures do not permit straight-in
approaches unless pilots are being radar vectored. In
these situations, pilots will be required to complete a
procedure turn (PT) or other course reversal, generally
within 10 NM of the PT fix, to establish the aircraft
inbound on the intermediate or final approach segment.
If Category E airplanes are using the PT or there is a
descent gradient problem, the PT distance available can
be as much as 15 NM. During a procedure turn, a
maximum speed of 200 knots indicated airspeed
(KIAS) should be observed from first crossing the
course reversal IAF through the procedure turn
maneuver to ensure containment within the obstruction
clearance area. Unless a holding pattern or
teardrop procedure is published, the point where
pilots begin the turn and the type and rate of turn are
optional. If above the procedure turn minimum
altitude, pilots may begin descent as soon as they
cross the IAF outbound.

The purpose of the initial approach segment is to
provide a method for aligning the aircraft with the
intermediate or final approach segment. This is
accomplished by using a DME arc, a course reversal,
such as a procedure turn or holding pattern, or by
following a terminal route that intersects the final
approach course. The initial approach segment
begins at an IAF and usually ends where it joins the
intermediate approach segment or at an IF. The letters
IAF on an approach chart indicate the location
of an IAF and more than one may be available.
Course, distance, and minimum altitudes are also provided
for initial approach segments. A given procedure
may have several initial approach segments.
When more than one exists, each joins a common
intermediate segment, although not necessarily at the
same location.
Occasionally, a chart may depict an IAF, although there
is no initial approach segment for the procedure. This
usually occurs at a point located within the en route
structure where the intermediate segment begins. In this
situation, the IAF signals the beginning of the intermediate
The intermediate segment is designed primarily to position
the aircraft for the final descent to the airport. Like
the feeder route and initial approach segment, the chart
depiction of the intermediate segment provides course,
distance, and minimum altitude information.
The intermediate segment, normally aligned within 30°
of the final approach course, begins at the IF, or intermediate
point, and ends at the beginning of the final
approach segment. In some cases, an IF is not shown on
an approach chart. In this situation, the intermediate segment
begins at a point where you are proceeding
inbound to the FAF, are properly aligned with the final
approach course, and are located within the prescribed
distance prior to the FAF. An instrument approach that
incorporates a procedure turn is the most common
example of an approach that may not have a charted IF.
The intermediate segment in this example begins when
you intercept the inbound course after completing the
procedure turn. [Figure 5-31]
The final approach segment for an approach with vertical
guidance or a precision approach begins where
the glide slope intercepts the minimum glide slope
intercept altitude shown on the approach chart. If ATC
authorizes a lower intercept altitude, the final
approach segment begins upon glide slope interception
at that altitude. For a nonprecision approach, the
final approach segment begins either at a designated
FAF, depicted as a cross on the profile view, or at the
point where the aircraft is established inbound on the
final approach course. When a FAF is not designated,
such as on an approach that incorporates an on-airport
VOR or NDB, this point is typically where the procedure
turn intersects the final approach course
inbound. This point is referred to as the final
approach point (FAP). The final approach segment
ends at either the designated MAP or upon landing.

Please Log in to join the conversation.

13 years 5 months ago #5299 by jetjerry
From what I think I found on the internet, MHTG is a non-radar approach control from FL250 and below.

Please Log in to join the conversation.

13 years 5 months ago #5300 by jetjerry
We should fix wx for 3000 OVR and 3miles vis.

What do you say?

<br /><br /><!-- editby --><br /><br /><em>edited by: jetjerry, Sep 12, 2007 - 11:50 AM</em><!-- end editby -->

Please Log in to join the conversation.

13 years 5 months ago #5301 by YETIV8R
Thanks Jerry for the great detail of explanation of the instrument approach procedure.

Here is the link that Jerry sent me for newer approach plate for MHTG.


Please Log in to join the conversation.

13 years 5 months ago #5302 by YETIV8R
I will let the others decide on the weather. I'm all for it. Like I say all the time, it's only a sim. :-D


Please Log in to join the conversation.

Time to create page: 0.087 seconds
Powered by Kunena Forum